6 comments on “FAITH: Hyper Grace and a Bethel SSM Graduate

  1. Hi Dean,

    I liked your article, very good and well thought out. You have a gift for writing and developing your point.

    Thank you so much for taking the time to actually read what I’ve said and make a decision on me based upon that – you’ve no idea how rare that is 🙂

    I would like for your readers to have a couple bits of information if you would permit me to share here.

    I won’t get into an argument because that’s pretty pointless, you’ve linked to my website (which is very rare of those who don’t like my teaching) and even quoted me very fairly with some context. So my argument is made and anyone wanting to know more can go to my website 🙂

    The first thing I would like to say is that this is NOT a “Bethel” teaching, for every person that might believe and teach what I do at Bethel there is at least one (or maybe more) who don’t. So just to say it might be a bit unfair on lumping all “Bethel SSM Graduates” in there. In fact Bethel are very close to both Dr Brown and Rick Joyner, I’ve had the pleasure of hearing them both speak there.

    The second is an article that you might find very interesting, and maybe even helpful in addressing specifically the concerns that Dr Brown has with this “Hyper-grace movement”. It was written by a friend and while very concise is pretty comprehensive in dealing with his arguments as they were put forth in Charisma magazine. It’s unlikely to change your mind but that really isn’t my goal, it will however hopefully help you see where these “hyper-grace” guys are coming from.

    http://escapetoreality.org/2013/02/22/error-of-hyper-grace-michael-brown/

    Love you bro – I hope that despite our not seeing eye-to-eye you can come along to the school in Tucson on Thursday. I would so have loved to have met up for a coffee or something but I’m only in Tucson for about 5hrs for dinner with the pastors and the meeting.

  2. Thanks Phil for dropping by. I do like your attitude and the honesty I noted on your website when you didn’t have an answer for a given scripture. One of the things Dr. Brown mentioned was that as he would read a “hyper” grace book, he would keep asking himself, what will they say about a whole list of scriptures which seem to say something counter to the “hyper” grace message. But he said he would get to the end of the book and the scriptures were never brought up.

    Anyway, I’ll change the title of my post to “Hyper Grace and a Bethel SSM Graduate” to be more fair to Bethel, and I’ll certainly look into the link you provided. I’m still trying to get my head around a number of the concepts you bring up, as I just don’t think that way (I much more see things through a kingdom perspective having been influenced greatly on that by George Eldon Ladd).

  3. Pingback: FAITH: Conviction of Sin – John 16 | Real Clear Truth

  4. Part 2 …

    7 – Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. (Don’t be deceived!) The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
    8 – The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.
    9 – No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
    10 – This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child

    Having the mind-set that I am righteous … or perhaps, without any fault … right now, no matter how I live, is deception. The Apostle John says so in 1 John 3 and Paul says so in 1 Corinthians 6:9.

    Yet this is what the hyper-grace preachers preach, and this does encourage a sloppy christian life-style where the christian has no conviction of any sinful, lustful, or hateful, or unforgiving (etc) traits. There seems to be no motivation, or conviction, to even be rid of such traits. I’ve seen it first-hand. And then when a brother or sister tries, even in the most loving, gentle way possible, to bring a Scripture to warn such a christian that continuing in sin is a slippery slope that can lead to their spiritual and eternal destruction, the warning is laughed at, or shouted down, as being legalism. Again, I have seen this first-hand.

    All who love God should take God’s warnings to heart and aim to live a life “in a manner worthy of the Lord … bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God” (Col 1:10) and obey Hebrews 12, which states:

    1 – … let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles …
    14 – Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. …
    25 – See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?

    Are these Words of the epistle of Hebrews legalistic and condemning Words? No! Rather they are written to teach us, correct us, and bring us to Life.

    Kindly,
    Lee
    Is Christ Soon To Return? Are you ready?

    • Part 1 …

      The problem that I see / hear with the ‘hyper-grace’ teachers and followers is that they seem to confuse the term “law” with the holy requirements/life-style requirement which are set forth in almost every New Testament epistle. I saw epistle, since such people often state that Christ’s Words in the Gospels were “pre-cross” instructions and therefore still Old Covenant and bondage-producing-legalistic instructions. Such has been said to me by both teachers and followers.

      Paul’s epistles do wonderfully start with the message of GRACE and the wonderful work that God thru Christ has accomplished in each newly Born Again believer. However, Paul never stops there at the “grace only” message. He continues in every writing to tell his readers HOW TO LIVE. Why does he do such in every epistle? Because it is important to God. (Scripture will back this statement, at the end of this comment…Heb 12:14)

      Paul writes:

      There must not be even a HINT of sexual immorality. And no foolish or rude/coarse joking (Eph 5:3,4).

      WE must rid OURSELVES of rage, malice, slander, and filthy language (Col 3:8).

      And what about the Apostle John’s strong warnings when he writes 1 John 3: … con’t in Part 2

      • Hi Lee, thanks for dropping by. Grace is a truly wonderful gift from our loving Father that we in no way deserve. He gives us grace even though we are clearly guilty, just so we can be with Him. And yet He is a holy God who commands us to sin no more. Basically, our sin puts us in a prison of death, and God in His mercy extends to us a pardon, to free us from our prison, to free us from death. So clearly, God does not free us to live in sin, just as much as He doesn’t “free” us to live in a prison!

        For me, this all comes down to the concept of two kingdoms. Which kingdom do we choose — at any moment — to live in? Do we choose to rule our own lives and live in the kingdom of this world (sin and death), or do we choose to be ruled by our loving King and live in the kingdom of heaven (righteousness and life)?

        We have to realize we are making that choice all the time. And every day we need to lay down our lives and choose the way of our Father — the way of love. We choose whether we will walk in life and love or sin and death. His grace opens the doors of our prisons — but we have to choose to walk out, follow Him, and live our lives in His love.

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